tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post8071475974396168714..comments2024-03-24T00:27:42.082-07:00Comments on mormonomics & mormonethics: I Don’t Believe in Faith CrisesRoger Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01833699821255820282noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-13340165730280677592023-03-25T20:25:01.735-07:002023-03-25T20:25:01.735-07:00My take on the Church is that it is very complicat...My take on the Church is that it is very complicated. I have had experiences that convince me that there is something divine about the institution. But there is certainly a very large human element too. I have dealt with this in an essay in Dialogue titled "Why the True Church Cannot Be Perfect." I think a lot of people are looking for perfection and therefore have unrealistic expectations.Roger Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01833699821255820282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-72646118670294480372023-03-25T20:20:48.278-07:002023-03-25T20:20:48.278-07:00I suppose every situation is different. I have one...I suppose every situation is different. I have one child who has given up on the Church. We still have a great relationship, but I realize that Mormonism isn't for everyone. I suppose where I am is that I just don't see the "crisis" in faith crisis. Some people I have talked with seem to be in such a rush to leave.Roger Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01833699821255820282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-79586366671086078892023-03-25T20:19:02.608-07:002023-03-25T20:19:02.608-07:00To be honest, I reread it and was uncomfortable wi...To be honest, I reread it and was uncomfortable with some of the things I said. I'll probably come at the topic from a different angle and post that in due time.Roger Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01833699821255820282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-23939699461116854532023-03-18T18:46:33.741-07:002023-03-18T18:46:33.741-07:00Maybe you've never had a faith crisis, but how...Maybe you've never had a faith crisis, but how about an empathy crisis? I nearly ended my life and left two kids fatherless because the organization had me so messed up I couldn't see a way forward. Guess you should be grateful you can see so much better than all us whiners.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10996963531198972421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-41133645130974490922023-03-17T19:11:52.725-07:002023-03-17T19:11:52.725-07:00Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspectiv...Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspective. My sense is that a lot of long-time (and better educated?) members feel this way about faith crises.<br /><br />As I understand the gist of your post, you seem to have the idea that a faith crisis happens when a person is impatient, expects too much of the Church, it's leaders, or its theology, found something unsavory in LDS history from 100 years ago, fails to properly value experiences with divine intervention, or simply constructed the crisis themselves (but you don't specify why?). Ultimately, for you, a faith crisis seems like a non-starter because the Church makes you a better person (especially by giving you an opportunity to improve) and gives you opportunities to serve good people. Did I get that right?<br /><br />I'm curious, have you had a chance to read the book "Bridges" by David Ostler, yet? Or have you read the "Faith Crisis Chronicles" that were part of the 2013 Faith Crisis Report? (https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/2013-faith-crisis-study). What kinds of conversations have you had with those who have experienced a "faith crisis" or faith transition?<br />bwv549https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-47701263605446151782023-03-17T18:18:29.223-07:002023-03-17T18:18:29.223-07:00This post strikes me as written by someone with gr...This post strikes me as written by someone with great privilege. "Church is messy? Hasn't affected me, so no big deal". "The church is full of misogyny? Hasn't affected me, no big deal!" Part of privilege is when you can look at others suffering and tell them they are making a mountain out of a molehill. It doesn't help build bridges and actually widens the gap the exists between those who remain and those who don't or are hurting because of the church. I also dislike hearing "the members" get blamed for doctrine and ideas the leadership push. They push for perfection. They put forth the idea the church "IS TRUE". This is their mess they taught and they need to own it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-41431483818067448652023-03-17T10:43:18.848-07:002023-03-17T10:43:18.848-07:00As a Bishop who has seen people experience what is...As a Bishop who has seen people experience what is sometimes referred to as a faith "crisis", I don't have a problem using that term. For them, it is a crisis. A crisis is "a time of intense difficulty, trouble, or danger" or "a time when a difficult or important decision must be made". I don't know how it could be described as anything else.<br /><br />Regardless, I'm happy to use the term that they assign to their own experience. I want others to do the same for me, so it seems fair.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-53993280794144745952023-03-16T19:54:20.925-07:002023-03-16T19:54:20.925-07:00Church lies, hides, and obfuscate its history. Whe...Church lies, hides, and obfuscate its history. When children grow up learning those lies and absolute truth, and that the truth was in fact "anti Mormon lies", it betrays a trust in the organization. <br /><br />Why should I trust an organization to tell me what happens after this life and gow to live, if they can't tell me the truth about history, let alone themselves. <br /><br />I wonder how one can raise children in the church morally at this point. It damages relationships. It damages emotional development. It damages families.<br /><br />But yes, coming to a realization that ghe foundation for your entire existence comes from lies, is a "self inflicted crisis". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-17464232518075798882023-03-16T19:26:59.505-07:002023-03-16T19:26:59.505-07:00What's the rush? There's no rush. But whe...What's the rush? There's no rush. But when you figure out that it's objectively not true (a la Book of Abraham mistranslation, Deutero Isaiah being present in the writings of Nephi, etc.) then there's no reason to stay and improve the organization. We're not leaving because of the improvable parts of the organization. We're leaving because it's not God's true church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-44817704370896748812023-03-15T21:43:40.874-07:002023-03-15T21:43:40.874-07:00I would describe what I went through as a faith cr...I would describe what I went through as a faith crisis, and I’ve seen others struggle through a similar process. When my belief in the church came apart, my whole worldview was shook. Religious assumptions had colored a majority of my decisions and how I interpreted most of the world around me. As that worldview disintegrated, I was left to figure out things independently and that felt very difficult. Everything came into question, including the existence of anything beyond this life and whether there was any real purpose to it. For many, including myself, crisis feels like an appropriate word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-10801471914190127542023-03-15T12:48:25.167-07:002023-03-15T12:48:25.167-07:00I really liked your last post too and wondered whe...I really liked your last post too and wondered where it went.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-68553855453935824082023-03-15T04:55:52.889-07:002023-03-15T04:55:52.889-07:00When staying in the church was doing actual harm t...When staying in the church was doing actual harm to my relationships to my wife and children and was not a place that was helping them, I was out. I had wrestled with the messiness of the church history for a long time and probably would have stayed chewing on that history for another 20 years. My daughter came out to us ten years ago and that didn’t push us out either but it was driving a wedge between us. When I found out about the church’s investment and real estate portfolio I stopped paying tithing and it was approaching a faith crisis. My wife had her own as she looked back at her life of choices with regret at what she hadn’t done in part because she was trying to live the life the church told her she should and she was depressed and angry. Put that together and we were in full faith crisis. We talked to the kids about it and found out they no longer believed and were humoring us and waiting to grow old enough to leave the church. Another child came out and told us they assumed were were as homophobic and transphobic as the church. So that was the last straw and we left. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-61410899270562653232023-03-15T04:52:13.880-07:002023-03-15T04:52:13.880-07:00Yeah, this is great. I also really liked your last...Yeah, this is great. I also really liked your last post. It's a shame you had to take it down. Paternalism in deed. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07153189478715318635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736612120087106800.post-73375452736814402292023-03-15T04:09:01.032-07:002023-03-15T04:09:01.032-07:00I love this. I love this. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com